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Erica D'Eramo 0:05
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers Podcast. I'm your host Erica D'Aramo, and today we have Alisa Tiherina rejoining the podcast. Alisa is a seasoned VP level leader with over 20 years of experience in the upstream energy industry, spanning offshore and onshore operations across domestic and international assets. She's here to join us in a conversation about high-stakes leadership. Really glad to have her back on the podcast. Hi, Lisa. Welcome back.
Alisa Tijerina 0:44
Hi, Erica. Thank you. I'm happy to be back.
Erica D'Eramo 0:48
Yeah, it's great to have you back. We were just recording our 100th episode, and I did a bit of a retrospective, and it occurred to me that you were actually our first guest.
Alisa Tijerina 0:58
Wow, that's amazing! And 100 episodes. Congratulations to Piers.
Erica D'Eramo 1:03
Yeah, thanks. It's uh, it's been a journey, huh?
Alisa Tijerina 1:07
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 1:08
So for folks who maybe didn't catch that early episode, I guess a little bit of context on how you and I met. We what was it? It was 2004, probably, that we were in a class in Houston.
Alisa Tijerina 1:24
Yes, we were in a training class in Houston our first year with BP, and I was based in Louisiana. I think you were based in New Mexico, right?
Erica D'Eramo 1:35
I lived in Durango at the time, and I was working the Farmington asset. Yeah, and that class was like facilities engineering
Alisa Tijerina 1:44
for production.
Erica D'Eramo 1:45
Yeah, for production. Yeah, yeah.
Alisa Tijerina 1:48
Great course.
Erica D'Eramo 1:50
It was like a two week course.
Alisa Tijerina 1:51
Yeah, it was really good.
Erica D'Eramo 1:53
Um, and I remember seeing you in the class. It was a bunch of us, like kind of right out of college. We didn't know each other, and I remember thinking, like, "Oh, that girl seems like she's like too cool for school. Like, she's she's too cool for me. We're never going to be friends."
Alisa Tijerina 2:09
And here we are,
Erica D'Eramo 2:11
22 years later. I think part of it too is like you went to you did university in Houston. You also studied mechanical engineering, right?
Alisa Tijerina 2:20
Yes.
Erica D'Eramo 2:21
Yeah. So, so you had like friends to go hang out with while while those of us who were
Alisa Tijerina 2:28
in the training were training were hanging out together. Yeah. Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 2:31
Yeah. But then lo and behold, our careers ended up kind of crossing many different times. So let's see. We what what did we do after that? We went to.
Alisa Tijerina 2:46
We were both. I think the first one was in Azerbaijan and Georgia. Azerbaijan
Erica D'Eramo 2:52
for our
Alisa Tijerina 2:54
for our induction
Erica D'Eramo 2:56
induction. It was a bit of a was like a little bit of a cult back back then, in terms of went through like multi week induction,
Alisa Tijerina 3:05
which is good. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo 3:06
yeah, it was good.
Alisa Tijerina 3:07
Really, really made you understand the company.
Erica D'Eramo 3:10
Yep, and and create some closer ties with folks. Then we traveled Europe together after that.
Alisa Tijerina 3:16
Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo 3:17
barely knew each other, but
Alisa Tijerina 3:18
yeah, I remember having build my first time to Europe and taking a suitcase up a bunch of cobblesteps, cobblestone steps was horrible. Backpack. I don't know why we didn't just backpack.
Erica D'Eramo 3:32
And like this was before smartphones. Yeah, I mean this would have been like what 2005, I guess. So yeah. Oh right, because wasn't it? It was right when Katrina and Rita hit. Because we left right as Katrina hit, and then we got back right as Rita hit, or like right in between. Yeah, that was pretty wild. So yes, we both learned a lot of things since then, and we then went on to like work together in well, not work together, but we both lived in Azerbaijan for 2006 to seven, then ended up in Alaska together for a few years.
Alisa Tijerina 4:14
Years after that,
Erica D'Eramo 4:15
yeah, and then
Alisa Tijerina 4:16
Houston.
Erica D'Eramo 4:18
So yeah, I guess one of the lessons from this podcast is a the
Alisa Tijerina 4:24
people you meet in training class. Don't underestimate that they'll be your colleague or friend for 20 years.
Erica D'Eramo 4:32
Yeah, if you if you think that girl across the room is too cool for you, just go ahead and say hello anyways, and then invite her on a trip to Europe and see how it goes. But in all seriousness, I mean, there were not that many. Yeah, there were not that many women really taking those paths that we took, and so even in that training course, I think there was only like three of us. There was a couple, but not many. Yeah, yeah, I yeah, wow, and especially like not that cohort of people then kind of ended up doing those international assignments all around the same time, and and a lot of folks ended up going their separate ways. But I'm really glad that we stayed friends all those years.
Alisa Tijerina 5:20
Me too,
Erica D'Eramo 5:21
yeah.
Alisa Tijerina 5:22
And here we are at 100 episodes.
Erica D'Eramo 5:23
Here we are, yeah. So we're here to talk about high stakes leadership. So I feel like we should probably start out by kind of defining what do we mean by you know like leading in high stakes environments. How do you define that?
Alisa Tijerina 5:39
Yeah. So when I think about high stakes environments, it's you know an environment where a person or it's it's almost like life or death. A person could you know get hurt, consequences are high, or there could be a significant environmental impact. You know, decisions are made with limited information. You know, there's usually a time component to it. I think those are probably the key elements of of that leadership or high stakes environment. Sorry, but when you, but then again, when you think of a high stake environment, you have in the energy space, you are working in this high hazard industry, so it's a high stakes environment all the time. But then you also have areas where you are responding to a crisis. So there's just kind of two, you know, you can differentiate it, you know, there where you're. There's your kind of normal day to day working in a high stakes environment, and then responding to a crisis within a high stakes environment. And I think also you could compare that to being deployed in the military or you know medical professions could be similar.
Erica D'Eramo 6:59
Yeah, construction, a lot of emergency responders. Like, I agree that time component, like that, having to make decisions with limited information, not out of choice, but you know, not like making, yeah, not making rash decisions, but you don't always have the time to go get as much information, you know, the luxury of long wavelength decisions. So, being able to make decisions under pressure. But yeah, I appreciate that differentiation between the steady state kind of day to day operations versus the emergency management kind of we are in crisis response, which is definitely a different way of operating, and and yet we know that the day to day is like informed by that readiness, right? The readiness to kind of respond at the drop of a hat for when things do shift, and and knowing that a slip up in operational discipline, or a slip up in procedures, or attention spans could put you in that crisis mode.
Alisa Tijerina 8:07
Right. Yes. Exactly.
Erica D'Eramo 8:09
Yeah. So, how do how what have you noticed in terms of the cultures of like high stakes organizations, and you know, to the extent that you've seen, are are there common threads or
Alisa Tijerina 8:22
definitely, when you're going through a crisis, a crisis brings people together. There's a saying: "Never waste a crisis, and that is, you know, people come together, they act, they're usually a bit more cohesive. They, you know, if they practice, they've you would expect emergency response to be practiced, so they know their roles, they know what to do, you know their structure, and they respond because you know they have a vested interest in, you know, eliminating the emergency or surviving the emergency. So you know, when you're actually doing the crisis again, the team teams usually come together, and it makes a team stronger. However, you're not in a crisis all the time, nor do
Erica D'Eramo 9:07
you want to be. Nor do they want to verify. We're not talking. They're good for anyone listening. Stressful. It's very,
Alisa Tijerina 9:13
very stressful, and it's exhausting,
Erica D'Eramo 9:16
and that impacts sometimes.
Alisa Tijerina 9:19
Yes, exactly. So, non when you're in a high stakes environment, there are things in when you're field based or you're offshore based that you you do have to. There's a certain rigor, or when you're deployed, like you're out there for two weeks, or you're out there for a month, and you're or you're deployed for six months, and you're expected to follow these certain rules and do this, you know, a certain way because that's how everybody, you know, conforms to, you know, to that operation, and they have those rules, you know, for to keep everybody safe, right, and to put bank structure and to make it, you know. Efficient and whatnot, but that could that doesn't necessarily build a you know a great culture. Like you, you have to work other ways to to build a good culture, which is you know finding psychological safety and finding ways to have the team trust each other and trust trust leadership, and then enable, and you know, leadership enabling the team to make the decisions and take the actions that they know that they know are right.
Erica D'Eramo 10:30
Yeah, yeah. There's there's a book by Sebastian Junger, I think, called Tribe, and it's actually it's more about like PTSD outcomes, but you know, exploring what makes the difference between a traumatic outcome versus people will experience the same event, but some people will have a traumatic outcome and some won't. That's like kind of the context and exploration. But one of the takeaways is that there is this phenomenon where people who go through really challenging, terrible events, whether that's military members who are deployed or people who experience like natural disasters and are on the response teams, in the moment you think like we just want to get through this. I never want to experience this again, but after the fact, people will often look back almost fondly, and have some guilt around the fact that they look back fondly on those moments in time. And I think even people who went through the pandemic, sometimes people say, like, I know this is terrible to say, but like I, there was something about those a few, you know, like some of the that time period that was very enlightening for me, or like I felt, I actually felt like I understood more,
Alisa Tijerina 11:46
or closer to your family, or you know, really value, you know, thought about what kind of what really mattered to them, and then just just facing a crisis or facing a pandemic, you know, made them really evaluate their lives and and prioritize.
Erica D'Eramo 12:03
One of the things that people who experience crises and sometimes look back somewhat fondly about the things that people reflect on is like clarity of purpose, that tight knit bond between teams or communities that will splinter after the crisis has resolved, then we go back to the day to day, like neighbors like having conflict about like the barking dog or whatever. But in the middle of a crisis, people come together and they put those differences aside and they just stay focused. And you mentioned roles and responsibilities, like when people have clear action plans. They know, like, okay, I'm going to go work my emergency response plan checklist. This is the role I play, and it and it's understood. I think that it leads to it. Kind of leads to that. It's almost like a little bit of a euphoria when, especially when you get through it and you feel like, okay, we avoided a negative outcome. We all came together. We got a good outcome.
Alisa Tijerina 13:05
I think also in those cases, again, the crisis part of it. That those decisions you practice it so much, and those decisions you you're deciding those decisions before the crisis actually happens because you planned it. You know, if this happens, we respond this way. If this happens, we respond this way.
Erica D'Eramo 13:24
You've got a flowchart.
Alisa Tijerina 13:25
Yeah, you have a flowchart. Did you follow it? And then you're like, right, I'm getting out of the platform. I'm off the, you know, whatever, and evacuating. So, right, exactly. The decisions made before the crisis.
Erica D'Eramo 13:39
Yes, but you don't have that when it's like, oh, Joe said this thing to me, and I don't really know how to interpret it, and more. He's not really motivated, and how am I going to get Joe on board? And like, you know, the day to day stuff of friction as humans, I think, is much more complicated, and we don't have a flow chart or a checklist, and so that's not real life. Crisis is not real life, but I think one of the interesting things is, I, in those high stakes environments, we don't want to, we don't really want to like promote crisis, right? We want silent running, steady state, right? We want kind of like quiet ops and
Alisa Tijerina 14:23
Boring. Operations should be boring.
Erica D'Eramo 14:25
Want boring operations, right? And so, like, how do we incentivize boring operations when people love coming together for a crisis?
Alisa Tijerina 14:37
Yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult.
Erica D'Eramo 14:39
What are your thoughts?
Alisa Tijerina 14:41
I mean, that's where the whole you're trying to build psychological safety with the team. You want to create an environment where people can speak up when incident or things happen, or you know, people aren't being blamed. You're trying to learn, you know, you're trying to improve, and you know that. That I think helps people feel valued if they're, you know, constantly improving when they find stuff and it gets fixed. Versus, oh, Bob didn't follow the procedure and you know now he's going to get run off or whatever, whatever.
Erica D'Eramo 15:18
Poor Bob is getting a real,
Alisa Tijerina 15:19
I know,
Erica D'Eramo 15:20
bad rap on this
Alisa Tijerina 15:21
previous response may have been, but yeah, I think that the I think it's difficult to promote to get sometimes to get people to be excited about the the steady state and the boring and and it's not it's not the boring but it's the you know it's the okay we have to update our procedures, and we have to follow a red line process, and we have to do this, and and you know that's it's not always the most you know exciting or sexy job, but it's
Erica D'Eramo 15:51
we got to clean the decks. Yeah, we got to do yeah Sunday cleanup. It's funny, I worked with a leader who who dealt with like nuclear things, and he was saying, "I, how do I get people excited about this? Like boring, nothing's happening. We're just steady state. And I was, he was like, "I really want people to be excited about that. And I was like, "I too really want people watching nuclear, you know, status to also be invested and excited in their careers, but this is something that like spans a lot of different industries.
Alisa Tijerina 16:29
Right, right.
Erica D'Eramo 16:30
How to have folks who get energized by like putting out a fire to not to be motivated to not have fires happen. Yeah. So,
Alisa Tijerina 16:39
and well, you mentioned a couple books, but when I think about you know some books about that, and again, it's nuclear and or it's navy, and then it's nuclear navy. But the the book, it's your ship by Michael as as Roshov, I think his last name is that one actually talks about your how how you want to really respect your team and empower your team and kind of how to you know have that engagement between leader and team and but then the the the another one I read called Turn the Ship Around by David Marquette and that one is pretty interesting because he tells you, you know, like the the the it's your ship tells you this is how you should act, and then turn your ship around tells you how to do that, which is you don't dictate this is how we want to do it or how I want you to do something. This is where this is our end state. Going to empower you to go figure out how we want to get to our end state. Come back. Let's you know have a check in. So people are actually feeling engaged about you know the the direction that they're going.
Erica D'Eramo 17:57
Yeah, I think that that's why programs like continuous improvement and all these other ways of getting people engaged and involved and taking ownership can be so valuable because when when life is dictated by SOPs like standard operating procedures and checklists and conformance and you know just going through the same pattern day after day, like finding those areas and opportunities where people can take ownership and make improvements and make system improvements can be really valuable and important.
Alisa Tijerina 18:32
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 18:35
So, what were your biggest surprises working in high state? Like, maybe we should also maybe I should also ask you like what were some of your roles that you would consider high stakes leadership?
Alisa Tijerina 18:45
Yeah, I think the one that would you know that is the most blaring one is the OIM, which is off offshore installation manager. So that's essentially you know the highest ranking person on the platform. So when you know if there's an incident, if someone's hurt, or there's a gas release or an oil spill, you're the incident commander. That would definitely be kind of the the most high stakes leadership role I think I've had. You're accountable for, responsible for the people who are on the platform. I've done other roles that are operations, so kind of above that, operations manager and director of operations, which are you know town based, and you're you're you've got a group, you've got OIMs that are offshore reporting to you, and in those cases, I think you're ultimately accountable, but you're not making the decision on how to respond when there is a crisis, and you're not confined to that field location for a certain you know amount of time, and having to you know you know deal with the the day to day of you know the 150 people that are that are on your or. That are on your site, so yeah, I would say OIM is probably the the high stakes leadership role I would would focus on, or say is you know has been the most impactful to me. You're asking about the learning, so I you know when I when I first became an OIM, you practice and you practice and you practice and you practice, and I remember I was so I would be so nervous, and you the way that the leader people take cues off the leader, and you know this. I mean, I know this, and you know, but it it's a it was a it was a big learning. I needed to, I needed to study up, and I needed to practice more, and I needed to be more confident, and I needed to, you know, make sure that I was comfortable with, you know, scenarios, so that when I had an incident, I responded calmly, I thought rationally, I was able to to direct the team because they're because they're looking to you.
Erica D'Eramo 21:04
Yeah, I used to put a sticker near the tannoy, which I guess tannoy is kind of a British term, but near the whatever
Alisa Tijerina 21:12
The pa
Erica D'Eramo 21:12
The pa yeah. That said low and slow because when I would get on the tannoy for emergency management, I my voice would go up in pitch and in pace, and I would sound, which does not sound like confident and in control. And you're you're messaging that out to an entire facility, like an entire floating ship of 200 people are hearing the anxiousness in your voice. So, yeah, even little things like low and slow, and taking your taking your time with the questions we talk about, like high pace and and tight timeframes. One of the best pieces of advice that anybody gave me out there was actually a technician, like a lead technician who had been doing this for a really long time, and he advised the group, like when the alarms go off, when the bells start going off, and you're headed to the emergency, we all want to run, and certainly probably like the fire team and the medic are maybe
Alisa Tijerina 22:18
yeah
Erica D'Eramo 22:18
running, but like walk, and I know that sounds wild, but he just said you're going to get there either in, you know, 30 seconds, or you're going to get there in like 36 seconds, and you need to take that time between then and when you arrive to figure out like what am I walking into? How am I walking into this, like get your head straight first before you just go barreling into I don't know, like a methane fire, right? Like,
Alisa Tijerina 22:47
yeah,
Erica D'Eramo 22:47
can't even see it. But that was one of the surprises to me. Like some of those things were what was surprising to me.
Alisa Tijerina 22:55
Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo 22:55
what were some surprises you had?
Alisa Tijerina 22:57
I think that they, you know, the other surprise was that I I felt like I changed my leadership style based on if you're in the crisis versus the day to day, and again, not a big it's not a huge surprise, but I didn't think I would have changed that significantly, and it was definitely a pretty significant change. You know, when you're going through a crisis, it's very like command and control. This is what we're doing. This is how we're doing it. What's the information? You report. You report. And then day to day, it was, it was, it was different. I mean, there's still structure and there's still expectations, but you know, you want to understand where, you know, what are other ideas or what are people kind of, you know, how can we collaborate? It was a bit more collaborative. I felt during the the day to day component of it.
Erica D'Eramo 23:55
Yeah, I think that sometimes in organizations that is a big risk. Actually, that you were mindful of it, like how to create that collaboration in a command and control environment, because it's still somewhat command and control, even when you're not in the in the emergency management response. But and it can be it. Then this is my opinion here, but it feels like it almost requires that level of intentionality to overcome the
Alisa Tijerina 24:24
yeah
Erica D'Eramo 24:25
that hierarchical power differential when you're in those environments like asking the open ended questions of what are your thoughts on this and maybe even owning the power differential of hey I know this is my decision to make I'm going to make the decision and I want to hear what you have to say about it, or like I want to know what you have. What what what am I missing? What should I know that I don't know?
Alisa Tijerina 24:48
Yeah, agree. And you have to be yeah even more deliberate about it, because people will easily just fall back into that command and control.
Erica D'Eramo 24:59
Yep. Yes, boss. Whatever you say, boss. You tell me. You're the boss, right? Like that.
Alisa Tijerina 25:05
Yeah. Expect you to.
Erica D'Eramo 25:07
Yep. Isn't that what you get paid for?
Alisa Tijerina 25:10
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 25:10
Yeah. But so, what what advice do you have, maybe for folks who are Entering a potential leadership role, high stakes environment, or considering maybe shifting careers, taking on a role, or even maybe here's another question: pick whichever one resonates. What can leaders in maybe not typically not offshore energy or military or emergency response. What can those leaders learn from some of the lessons that high stakes environments teach us?
Alisa Tijerina 25:52
I think that there's the structure and simplification of the crisis component of it, like when this happens, we're doing this. I think that that kind of you know simple structure made it easy, made it easier to respond, right? So I think if you know a non high stakes company or you know environment put some simple simple things in place, they could make they could make things you know more efficient,
Erica D'Eramo 26:23
yeah. Like removing that cognitive load and the stress and the friction that allows people to then just get that focus, execute, and then bring you know they can still bring their ideas. But I see so many organizations that people are spending all their time and energy just trying to navigate the systems, or like make decisions that they shouldn't have to make, or not knowing who owns the decision, right? Like a RAPID chart or a RACI chart goes a long way, man. Having an SOP,
Alisa Tijerina 26:53
But also then having the decision at the right level too, right? So yeah, not not yeah, because you'll have bottlenecks otherwise.
Erica D'Eramo 27:03
Yeah. So, like, maybe as we kind of take your final reflections, one one question that might benefit some of our listeners is any lessons that you learned when about transitioning from the high stakes environments to maybe shoreside those more senior leadership roles where you're not on the on the vessel or or out there facing the risk yourself.
Alisa Tijerina 27:31
Great question. When I think about moving from an off heist kind of an offshore to you know an onshore office office role, one of the the key difference is is the directness of communication. In the office, people aren't as direct. You know, there's more office politics. You have to understand who those silent influencers are, and you have to be able to read the room and navigate how to get something through, you know, through a group of people, so definitely less direct communication when you're in the office. You're having to kind of influence across those stakeholders versus this is what's happening. This is what we need, and yeah, I mean, I think that's the. I mean, that's a big one. You know that's a that's a that's a big change that you have to that you have to you know learn how to learn how to navigate.
Erica D'Eramo 28:30
Yeah, actually, as we record this, we're coming up on the annual Women Offshore Conference.
Alisa Tijerina 28:36
Right.
Erica D'Eramo 28:37
Yeah. Right. We'll we'll both be there. I think. Are you speaking?
Alisa Tijerina 28:41
I am. I am. Yes, october 1
Erica D'Eramo 28:45
on a panel. Is that right?
Alisa Tijerina 28:47
On a panel. Yes.
Erica D'Eramo 28:49
Nice. Do you know what panel it is?
Alisa Tijerina 28:51
Yes, defining your identity and work and life.
Erica D'Eramo 28:54
Oh, that'll be good.
Alisa Tijerina 28:56
Yeah.
Erica D'Eramo 28:56
On date
Alisa Tijerina 28:57
speaking too, right?
Erica D'Eramo 28:58
Yeah. Yeah, day two. I'm facilitating a workshop on communication, and actually, this is one of the common challenges that comes up for a lot of women who work on the water. Is not so much, yes, there are there are challenges communicating offshore, but one of the big challenges is actually when you come back onshore, how do you navigate? Because we are used to a more direct communication style of just calling it as it is, and then all of a sudden that's considered abrasive or abrupt or disruptive or or aggressive, our favorite word. So, so yeah, how to adapt to that? When I mean, in many ways, like that direct type of communication can be way more efficient, so it is a tough. It is tough thing to let go of. It is tough. Yeah, yeah. So I want to thank you for being back on the podcast, and I I know we've had let's see. So that was 20. 24 that we met, so we've so over 20 years of friendship. No,
Alisa Tijerina 30:05
2004. Yeah,
Erica D'Eramo 30:06
I'm sorry. Ah, 2004. Yeah, yeah, 2004. Over 20 years of friendship and over and so now 10 years of Two Piers and and when we recorded that podcast episode. Actually, it was like right as the pandemic was kicking off,
Alisa Tijerina 30:25
starting yeah,
Erica D'Eramo 30:26
and we talked about like surviving in times of confinement with lessons from being offshore, being stuck on a vessel, and here we are, all these years later. So here's to at least 20 more years.
Alisa Tijerina 30:39
Yeah, so friendship and 10 more plus of Two Piers and 100 more podcasts.
Erica D'Eramo 30:46
Yeah, we'll see. We'll take it. We'll take it one season at a time. But I appreciate your your sharing of your insights and wisdom and always good conversation.
Alisa Tijerina 30:56
Yeah, thank you, Erica.
Erica D'Eramo 30:58
Okay, and for our listeners, you can find a summary of this episode on the website, and you can follow our podcast on any of your favorite podcast streaming platforms. So, we look forward to seeing you next episode.
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Lessons About High-Stakes Leadership with Alisa Tijerina
Two Piers Podcast
In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, Erica D’Eramo is joined by Alisa Tijerina for a conversation about high-stakes leadership, operational discipline, crisis response, and what leaders in any industry can learn from high-hazard environments.
Alisa is a seasoned VP-level leader with more than 20 years of experience in the upstream energy industry, spanning offshore and onshore operations across domestic and international assets. She is also a longtime friend of Erica’s, and the first-ever guest on the Two Piers Podcast.
The episode begins with a full-circle moment. Erica and Alisa first met in 2004 during a facilities engineering training class in Houston. Their careers continued to cross over the next two decades, including international assignments in Azerbaijan and Georgia, time in Alaska, and later work in Houston. Now, more than 20 years later, Alisa returns to the podcast as Two Piers marks its 100th episode.
From there, the conversation turns toward leadership in environments where the stakes are high, the margins are narrow, and decisions can carry serious consequences.
What Makes Leadership “High-Stakes”?
Alisa defines high-stakes environments as places where the consequences of decisions can be severe. People can get hurt. Environmental impact can be significant. Leaders often have to act with limited information and under time pressure.
In the energy industry, high-stakes work is not only about major incidents or emergency response. The entire operating environment is high hazard. There is the normal day-to-day work of operating safely and reliably, and then there is the acute crisis mode when something has gone wrong or could go wrong quickly.
Erica adds that this applies well beyond offshore energy. Construction, emergency response, healthcare, military service, aviation, maritime work, and many other fields include some version of high-stakes leadership. These are environments where leaders may not have the luxury of long deliberation, but still need to avoid making rash or poorly grounded decisions.
A key distinction emerges early in the conversation: steady-state high-stakes operations and crisis response are not the same thing. They require related but different leadership skills.
Crisis Can Bring Teams Together
Alisa notes that crises often bring people together. In an emergency, teams tend to become more cohesive. They know the purpose. They know their roles. They often have practiced the response many times before.
Emergency response is built on preparation. Teams rehearse scenarios, clarify responsibilities, and define what happens under specific conditions. By the time a real crisis occurs, many of the decisions have already been made through planning, drills, and response procedures.
Erica connects this to the clarity people often experience during a crisis. In those moments, teams may have a shared purpose, a clear structure, and an agreed-upon action plan. There can even be a strange after-the-fact fondness for the cohesion and clarity that existed during a difficult event, even when no one would choose to repeat the crisis itself.
That does not mean crisis is good for people. Both Erica and Alisa are clear that crisis is stressful, exhausting, and not something to romanticize. But it can reveal what becomes possible when people have shared purpose, clear roles, trust, and practiced ways of working.
The Goal Is Boring Operations
One of the most useful themes in the episode is the idea that in high-hazard industries, good operations should often be boring.
Excitement may come from putting out fires, but high-performing operations are built around preventing those fires in the first place. The best outcome is often nothing dramatic happening at all.
That can be hard to motivate around. Some people are energized by the emergency, the challenge, and the adrenaline of the crisis. It takes a different kind of leadership to help people stay engaged in the quiet, repetitive, disciplined work that prevents incidents.
This is where operational discipline matters. Updating procedures, following red-line processes, cleaning decks, maintaining equipment, and practicing routines may not feel exciting, but they create the conditions for safe and reliable performance.
Erica shares an example from a leader in a nuclear-related environment who wanted people to feel invested in the fact that nothing was happening. That challenge is not unique to nuclear operations. Many industries rely on people staying engaged when the work is steady, procedural, and intentionally uneventful.
Boring operations are not a lack of leadership challenge. They are the result of leadership discipline.
Psychological Safety in High-Stakes Environments
Alisa emphasizes that rules, rigor, and structure are essential in high-stakes environments, especially offshore or field-based operations. People need to follow procedures. They need to know expectations. There is a reason certain ways of working exist.
At the same time, structure alone does not create a healthy culture.
To build a strong operating culture, leaders also need trust, psychological safety, and a willingness to learn. People need to be able to speak up when something is wrong, report incidents or near misses, ask questions, and raise concerns without immediately fearing blame or punishment.
If a response to a problem is only, “Who failed to follow the procedure?” the organization may miss a larger learning opportunity. If people see that issues are surfaced, understood, and fixed, they are more likely to feel valued and more likely to continue speaking up.
That balance matters. In high-stakes work, psychological safety is not about making things soft or easy. It is part of how organizations maintain safety, improve systems, and prevent small issues from becoming major events.
Leadership Style in Crisis Versus Day-to-Day Operations
One of Alisa’s biggest reflections is that her leadership style shifted significantly depending on whether she was leading in crisis response or day-to-day operations.
As an Offshore Installation Manager, or OIM, Alisa was the highest-ranking person on the platform. In an incident, she was the incident commander. If someone was hurt, if there was a gas release, if there was an oil spill, or if the platform needed to respond quickly, she was accountable for directing the response.
In that crisis mode, leadership becomes more command-and-control. The leader needs information quickly. People report status. Decisions are made clearly. The structure tightens because the situation requires it.
Day-to-day leadership is different. There is still structure, but there is also more room and need for collaboration. Leaders need to ask for ideas, hear different perspectives, and create space for people to contribute.
Erica points out that this requires real intentionality. In hierarchical, command-and-control environments, people can easily default to waiting for the boss to decide. Leaders who want input may need to say that clearly: “I know this is my decision to make, and I want to hear what you see that I might be missing.”
That kind of transparency helps people understand that speaking up is not overstepping. It is part of the work.
Calm Is a Leadership Skill
Alisa shares that one of the major lessons from becoming an OIM was realizing how much people take their cues from the leader.
She practiced and studied so she could respond calmly and rationally when something happened. It was not enough to know the procedures intellectually. She needed enough familiarity and confidence to remain steady under pressure.
Erica recalls putting a sticker near the public address system that said “low and slow.” During emergency communications, she noticed that her voice could rise in pitch and pace, which signaled anxiety to everyone listening. On a facility with hundreds of people hearing the announcement, tone matters.
The phrase “low and slow” became a reminder to lower the pitch, slow the pace, and communicate steadiness.
Erica also shares advice from an experienced technician: when the alarms go off, walk. The instinct may be to run toward the emergency, but arriving a few seconds sooner is not always worth losing the chance to think. Walking gives a leader time to assess, breathe, and prepare mentally for what they are about to enter.
In high-stakes leadership, urgency does not always mean speed. Sometimes urgency means getting clear enough to act well.
What Other Leaders Can Learn from High-Stakes Environments
When Erica asks what leaders in other industries can learn from high-stakes environments, Alisa points to structure and simplification.
In crisis response, people know what happens when certain conditions occur. The plans are simple enough to be useful under pressure. The structure removes unnecessary cognitive load so people can focus on execution.
Many organizations outside high-hazard industries could benefit from that same clarity. Too often, people burn energy trying to navigate unclear systems, understand who owns a decision, or guess what process to follow.
Simple tools such as clear decision rights, RACI or RAPID charts, standard operating procedures, and defined escalation paths can make a meaningful difference. They reduce friction and help people move more effectively.
Alisa also notes that decisions need to sit at the right level. If too many decisions escalate unnecessarily, leaders become bottlenecks. If decisions are pushed too low without clarity or support, people may feel exposed. Good structure helps the organization decide who should own what.
Empowerment, Ownership, and Continuous Improvement
The conversation also touches on how to keep people engaged in structured environments.
Erica notes that when work is highly procedural, leaders need to find places where people can still take ownership. Continuous improvement programs and system-improvement efforts can help people feel that they are not only following procedures, but also shaping better ways of working.
Alisa references two leadership books that connect to this theme: It’s Your Ship by Michael Abrashoff and Turn the Ship Around! by David Marquet. Both explore how leaders can create more ownership, empowerment, and engagement within structured environments.
The point is not to remove structure. In high-stakes operations, structure is essential. The question is how leaders use structure to support ownership rather than suppress it.
Transitioning from Offshore Leadership to Office-Based Leadership
Alisa also reflects on the shift from offshore leadership to more senior, office-based roles.
One major difference is communication style. Offshore and field-based environments often rely on direct communication. People say what is happening, what they need, and what needs to be done. That directness supports clarity and speed.
Office environments can be less direct. There may be more politics, more stakeholder management, more silent influencers, and more need to read the room. Leaders moving from field-based or operational roles into office-based roles may need to adapt how they communicate and influence.
Erica connects this to a common experience for women who work offshore or on the water. Direct communication may be valued in the field, but when those same leaders come back onshore, the same style can suddenly be labeled abrasive, abrupt, aggressive, or disruptive.
That transition can be difficult. It requires leaders to keep the strengths of operational directness while learning how to navigate environments where influence, timing, and stakeholder awareness matter more.
Women Offshore and the Ongoing Conversation
As Erica and Alisa record the episode, both are preparing for the Women Offshore Conference.
Alisa shares that she will be speaking on a panel about defining your identity in work and life. Erica will be facilitating a workshop on communication, including some of the challenges that arise when leaders move between offshore and onshore environments.
This feels fitting given their shared history. Erica and Alisa met early in their careers, when there were not many women taking the offshore and international operations paths they both pursued. More than 20 years later, they are still connected, still learning from those environments, and still supporting conversations about leadership, communication, identity, and high-stakes work.
Key Takeaways for Leaders
High-stakes leadership is not limited to emergency response. It also shows up in the everyday systems, routines, and relationships that determine whether an organization can operate safely and effectively over time.
A few themes from the conversation stand out:
Crisis response depends on preparation long before the crisis happens.
Boring operations require active leadership, not passive maintenance.
Psychological safety is part of operational performance, especially when people need to raise concerns early.
Leaders need to know when command-and-control is appropriate and when collaboration is required.
Calm communication is a practiced skill.
Clear decision rights reduce friction, confusion, and unnecessary escalation.
Leaders moving from field-based to office-based environments may need to adapt their communication and influence strategies without losing the clarity that made them effective.
For leaders in high-accountability environments, the challenge is not simply to respond well when something goes wrong. It is to build the systems, trust, clarity, and leadership habits that make good outcomes more likely in the first place.
Bring This Conversation Into Your Team
If your organization operates in a high-accountability, high-pressure, or safety-critical environment, this episode can be a useful conversation starter.
Consider discussing:
Where do we rely on heroics instead of strong systems?
What does “boring operations” look like in our context?
Do people know who owns key decisions?
Where are we creating unnecessary cognitive load?
Do people feel safe raising concerns, naming risks, or challenging assumptions?
Are our leaders equipped to shift between directive leadership and collaborative leadership when the situation requires it?
Two Piers works with leaders, teams, and organizations navigating complexity, pressure, growth, and change. Through executive coaching, team coaching, organizational development, and practical leadership education, we help clients strengthen the leadership behaviors and systems that support clearer decisions, stronger relationships, and more sustainable performance.
If this episode raised questions about your own team or organization, we invite you to explore how Two Piers can support your leadership development work.
Learn more about our work at Two Piers Consulting, browse more episodes of the Two Piers Podcast, or book a complimentary consultation to discuss what support could look like for your leaders or team.