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Erica D'Eramo 0:05
Hello and welcome to the Two Piers podcast. I'm your host, Erica D'Eramo, and today we have guest Ben Keller joining us. Ben is the owner of Keller Media works a film and video production company, and he has over 20 years in the industry. He started out in the music industry before shifting into the visual realm. Ben's here to talk to us today about the value that adventure and world experience can bring to the professional world.
Erica D'Eramo 0:41
Ben, thank you so much for joining us today.
Ben Keller 0:44
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Erica D'Eramo 0:47
We have lots of experts join the podcast on things like organizational development and culture and inclusion. We have not ever had someone who specializes in video or even like media of any sort. So this is really special for me.
Ben Keller 1:04
I'm glad to be here.
Erica D'Eramo 1:06
So let's, let's start out with just hearing a little bit about who you are, like, what's Ben's story? What's your what's your background, what's your story, what how did you what's your origin story? How did you become the person that you are today?
Ben Keller 1:21
Wow, that's a big question.
Ben Keller 1:24
I'll try to keep it short.
Ben Keller 1:28
Essentially, I've always been a person with an artistic bent or an artistic mind, and I've always I started off in sculpture when I was younger and and then moved into photo when I was in college and worked for a while in the in the photographic realm and life called and I just sort of went out into the world and got whatever job I could in order to support my experiences. That was at that period of time, the most important aspect of how I wanted to live my life. And then eventually, I sort of came back around via the music industry. So I got involved in the music industry right out of college. I was in a band, but more importantly, I did A and R at a small independent label in Chicago. I worked for several small independent labels in Chicago and and started my own. And after a while, it was time to leave Chicago, and I came out east to Maine and but I still had the label going, and I was looking for a way to sort of goose sales. And I had always wanted to be someone who created music videos, I guess, or short films with music in it, I guess, would be more appropriate. But the the the entry level was too expensive, and it was only when equipment prices started to come down that I could even feasibly think about it. So I started making music videos for the bands that were on my label, and from there, it just sort of took off. And at the time, I was professionally a travel agent, so it had nothing to do with art at all, but it did have to do with adventure. And then I just sort of made the move when the company I was working at sort of decided they weren't going to be in the travel industry anymore. They made me redundant, and I went off to seek my fortune in the production world. And the rest, as they say, is history.
Erica D'Eramo 3:32
So already, I'm in and out of my depth in terms of some of the terminology. What is A and R?
Speaker 1 3:34
Artists and representation. Artists and representation, it's the arm of a label that goes out and finds new bands and then make sure that they get a good deal with the label, and that the label is supporting them, and that they are doing what they need to do to support the label as well.
Erica D'Eramo 3:55
Got it Okay, so probably we should also probably have our little glossary of terms and like, what, what would you say, like a filmographer is, and what is video production like? What does that actually mean? What does it entail? Because I, I think you are the first video production professional that I've ever met?
Ben Keller 4:20
Well, you're certainly opening up a whole can of worms with that question. Because the popular term right now for a lot of folks who create filmic or video works and put it online is content creator. And I push back on that terminology because it makes it sound like it's trash. That's not a great way to describe it, that it's that's expendable or disposable. That's it. It makes it sound like it's disposable. You're just creating something to grab someone's attention for 10 seconds, and out the window it goes. And while I do do that. That as part of my business, because I understand the need of it. I don't like that term. I would rather call myself a filmmaker or an artist, or even a videographer, long videographer, yeah, long before I would call myself a content creator, and it depends on what area you like to focus in. Being in Maine. When I first started being on my own in Maine, a bunch of people came up to me and said, you know, in Maine, they have a saying that if you're going to be independently employed, you got to have more than one string in your bow. And I kind of took that to heart. So I know it's a funny saying, but it's true. It's hard to say I just make films. It's easier to say I make films, I do commercial work, and then I do social media work too. So whatever work there is that needs to be done that fits the sort of paradigm that we're trying to create. We'll do it. So I do make documentary films. I am soon going to create my first narrative film. I'm going to shoot that next year. I also do a lot of social media work, and I do a lot of commercial work, as well as doing things that is not as glamorous, things like interdepartmental video messaging or trainings, online trainings, those kinds of things that the general public doesn't actually see. There's still a very great need for that kind of stuff, and so we sort of fill that niche as well. It's not the most glamorous. You're not flying off to crazy locations and hanging out with models and that kind of thing, but you are doing solid and important work, and a lot, a lot of that comes from our work with nonprofits in particular.
Erica D'Eramo 6:57
Yeah. So okay, so I'm gleaning then that this is more than just like you show up with a camera, grab the shot and then walk away.
Ben Keller 7:09
That generally is event work. And we do do some event work, but I bowed out of weddings a long time ago. It just was not my bag. I want to actually tell stories. I don't want to just grab, you know, the what a great party it was. We do do it because the demand is great and it's there. And we'll do it, and we'll, we'll develop a little story within what we've captured and and send that off to the client. But generally speaking, if, if it's just me and a camera, which a lot of these shoots can be like that. There's a lot of pre production that goes into it so that the hiccups that will inevitably occur with only having one person on set or on location can be handled with aplomb.
Erica D'Eramo 7:56
Yeah, and then what does it look like after because I'm guessing, similarly, it's not just send them the raw footage and be done.
Ben Keller 8:06
No, we actually never send the raw footage to anyone.
Ben Keller 8:09
Ever. Ever.
Erica D'Eramo 8:11
Seems like a good idea.
Ben Keller 8:12
Yeah. First of all, because my shooting style, or my filming style, when I'm the one who's actually running the camera, I overshoot and a lot of times that just confuses people when they get the raw footage. Secondly, generally speaking, they're not paying for the raw footage. That's another whole price point if they want it that's agreed to in the beginning. And thirdly, it's huge. It takes up so much file size, like getting it to them, especially if they're an out of state client is just ridiculous. I'm in, I'm with a client right now that they they need, I know somewhere in the order of nine to 10 gigs every week uploaded to them, and it takes 36 hours for me to upload it, because they're in Czechoslovakia, so it, it's a real resource drag so a lot of people, and this is why I backed out of weddings, because a lot of people think it is you just show up with the camera, take the shot, and then you're done, woohoo, and you send it off. No, that's not the case. You spend hours at the edit desk, and that's where a lot of the cost of making video production comes from. Is the post production time, because there's voice overs, there's graphics, there's the edit, pulling selects can take for forever. And most importantly, and probably the biggest sort of time warp that you'll fall into, is music, either creating music for the piece or finding music. It is a rabbit hole, and you can go way down it. And sometimes I, if it's a very tight budget, I'll just go back to the client and say, hey pick four or five pieces of music. Here's some resources. And then we'll go from there, because it's it is overwhelming at times. So it takes a long time. The actual production days is probably maybe a quarter of the entire process.
Erica D'Eramo 10:12
I'm asking all these questions about the nitty gritty of it, because I think it actually does tie to some of our the theme for this conversation today, which is why I, and me and you, I think, are asserting that getting out in the world, getting yourself a little messy, taking the road less traveled, getting out there for adventures, actually impacts our ability to do our craft right, like that. It It impacts how we pull things together, how we view the world, how we see things so, so, what is it that you bring that it's like, you know, like, what is it that you're how, what are you looking at when you piece these things together, or you're, like, trying to tell a story?
Speaker 1 10:57
What I think is that each individual director, producer has their own ideas of how a piece could, not should, but could look, and that realm of creativity comes directly from that person's life experience and and that includes seeing other people's work, as well as how they've lived their lives, the books they've read, the movies they've seen, the travels they've been on, the people They've met, the conversations they've had, all of those things combined into that one person will give them a unique look on how to create a story within the parameters that have been delivered by the client. So some folks have a much sort of narrower view, or sometimes purposely more narrow view, when they approach a production, whereas others will will go out there and just find the strangest things that have happened to them and say, well, wouldn't that be interesting if I use this or that aspect of that experience in in producing this piece for this client or movie, whatever it is you're doing. So generally, I think people who have really been outside of their box, and who are generally a little older, and that's not to say there aren't some really young, amazing directors out there, for sure, but people who have more experience under their belt and know how to translate that into sort of their creative output, those are generally the people that are going to deliver something that's a little more captivating.
Erica D'Eramo 13:03
Hmm, it's funny I had a client recently come back to me and say, you know, thank you so much for like helping this past year. This has been one of the hardest years of my career. Um, things are getting better now, I will say, though, that the amount of growth I had in this past year was incredible, right? Like she, she had kind of gotten through it. She was reflecting, and I was laughing about, you know, I kind of call it the manure effect, like you sometimes you have to go through the stuff. You have to go through these, like wild experiences, these things you could never imagine to get that growth like you can't build muscles without taxing them a little bit, and you can't really build confidence without going through it or knowing what you know, knowing what to look for, knowing what what to avoid. All of these things are unfortunately earned through the the pain and joy of some of the mishaps and some of the like black swan events you would have never expected. But as you were talking like it just kind of evoked that memory for me, of earning these experiences and insights through by going through it.
Ben Keller 14:20
Well, that is, I think, absolutely true. And corollary to that, imagine being someone who, say, was a director and it was on set and never had anything go wrong, and then something catastrophic goes wrong. On a bigger production, you pay people to deal with it, but in a small scale, you got to think on your feet, and you have to get out and doing it. And if you haven't ever dealt with adversity or any kind of catastrophic failure, you're not going to know really what to do. And that doesn't serve you or the client in any way, shape or form, and ultimately, does not, uh, help the artistic vision either.
Erica D'Eramo 15:03
Yeah, I'm doing a series right now on confidence. This is something I'm like, really just, it's a special interest of the moment for me, confidence, maybe because I just see so so much bad advice out there about just fake it till you make it and just, you just gotta believe in yourself, right? But what we know, what the science says is that confidence comes from us reflecting on evidence. So the evidence might not be that you did that exact thing, that you got through XYZ, weird scenario, but it might be that you faced a weird scenario in the past, and you figured it out right. And so that that is actually what truly builds confidence. But there's no shortcut to do it without having to go through some of the experiences first.
Ben Keller 15:48
Yeah, agreed, and it's and it's not just the experience itself, but also how you're managing yourself in the experience. And that is something that really only comes with experience. I think some people naturally are very good at it, but a majority, I think of us, are not. And so having these things happen, learning how to deal with the situation, but also learning how to cope internally with what's going on is super, super important.
Erica D'Eramo 16:28
Yeah, yeah, in the coaching world, we like to call that kind of self management, and definitely like growth mindset comes into some of this too, that the orientation is really on the experience and the trajectory, rather than some binary like success or failure. But there's some fascinating research right now on how orientation, and in terms of like, how you orient around the problem directly impacts performance. And some some terminology around, like, psychological capital and lots of really cool, interesting stuff out there. But again, it's around that, like, building those muscles right over time, building the muscles of, okay, well, this is new, but we're gonna figure it out.
Ben Keller 17:17
Rght? But even getting there...
Erica D'Eramo 17:19
Yeah
Ben Keller 17:19
You know, like being okay, we're gonna figure it out. That's a big step. A lot of people are like, ah, what am I gonna do? I'm freaking out, you know, or whatever. And I get that I've been there absolutely but with age and experience and and, and not just experience within the industry or within whatever it is you're doing, but experience in the world things that happen, the distresses and the good things and the solutions that come from you and you in your peer group are super important for translating into what you do for, I think, for a living, certainly in the creative world.
Erica D'Eramo 18:03
It really resonated when you mentioned that you were working to fund like the experiences. Because for me, when I was graduating from college, or even when I was, you know, initially looking at kind of internships, I was pretty clear about what I wanted, and it was to travel the world. That's what I wanted. I wanted to travel the world. So wherever I landed, it just needed to be a job that allowed me to travel the world, whether by funding that or by sending me around the world. And I did. I, you know, I ended up in the energy industry, which did both of those things, and I, I sort, I think I sort of had a mentality of, kind of always take, I guess, the road less traveled. Although I think if we really reflect on what Robert Frost meant with that poem, it's a little different. But like, just always take the option that seems the most out of left field, right. Well, I could have, I could have stuck around in the US. I raised my hand for an expat assignment immediately, right? I ended up in Azerbaijan Republic of Georgia, Angola, Alaska, like I wanted to get out there and see the world. These were all places that I could work, learn the culture, really embed, and then also jumping off points to other parts of the world where I could explore and absorb culture. But that was always the goal. Was always to have experience this world as much as possible. So when you mentioned that, it really, really resonated.
Ben Keller 19:37
Well, I was talking about this with a friend the other night. It's, it's one of those things, and I'm not really sure which one it is. Is it? It's curiosity and is it? Is it a learned thing, or is it a genetic thing? Which is it? And does it matter? Like I have it, and I know people who just don't I'm when I first moved to Maine, I met a fellow who had never left Mount Desert. He was like, 40 years old, what I had already been, you know, across the world. I'd worked in Alaska, I lived in different cities in the US. I had lived in Europe, you know, and I wanted more. And he was perfectly okay. And no shade. I just it. Just don't what is it? Is it? Is it an education thing? Is it a genetic thing? Is it a upbringing thing? What? What is it that gives you that curiosity? Heck, even within my own family, there are folks that just don't have the same curiosity that I have in my direct lineage. You know, it's, it's, it's interesting. And that curiosity, I think, drives us to, you, to see what's around the bend, even if you can see the first 20 feet of the path, you don't know what's around the bend, but let's go find out.
Erica D'Eramo 20:52
Yeah, I share that curiosity, and in some regards, it's almost like a hunger that I think I do respect and maybe even envy a little bit the safety of being happy just with what we have. You know, I do strive to just be satisfied with what I have and not always be like yearning for the next thing. And also I just think, like, humans are so fascinating and vibrant, and I love seeing other cultures, like experiencing them, not just as a tourist, although, you know, sometimes that's the only way that you can do it, that's that's the opportunity. But really, like soaking into that, and I don't know it's never gone away like that travel I that bug has never left me.
Ben Keller 21:46
Well, and for me in my professional life, it's very clear that whatever brain stew happens when I travel helps my creativity in a way that I don't normally get when I shoot in familiar territory around the Portland area when I'm on the road, even if it's not that far away, even if it's just up north, a bit, you know, up to Augusta or Bangor or something, you know, like there's, there's something that happens physically, with the chemistry that helps my create creative levels. And it's so, yes, it's kind of a hunger, and yes, I also want to be happy with what I've got, but I know that it feeds me in a way that is important, both to me personally and to my to my business.
Erica D'Eramo 22:35
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the reasons they say, like, even if teams are stuck, or if you're trying to brainstorm or what, and you're in, you're feeling stuck, the best thing to do is to immediately change your environment. And that might be get outside and go for a walk. It might be go to a cafe down the road. It might be go to the cafeteria if you're at the office, but it is to change your environment. And I think the other piece there, you know, Julia Cameron talks about this a lot in her Artist's Way book about, you know, exposing yourself to different stimuli and different modalities of whether it's art or culture or nature, just to create that kind of, I don't know, potpourri of inputs that then who knows what comes from it. It's hard to understand how that's influencing us in our creative drive.
Ben Keller 23:26
Yeah, absolutely. I recently read a book, I'm sorry I can't remember the author's name, called Kill the Dog. And it was a, it was a book about script writing and and one of his biggest points was to find your voice. And he said the best way to do that is to he put it like this. I'm not sure I'd use it, but he said to be a consumer, like read every book you can possibly read, have every conversation you can possibly have, meet everybody that you can possibly meet, and just keep going like that, because all of that information, all that input, is going to help drive your creative output. And I really believe in that. And it goes beyond just consuming other media, consuming other movies or videos, surely very important for me to do that in my industry, but definitely books, conversations, being social when possible, and going, just like getting in the car and go find something, change your surroundings. Wake up someplace different. Just go, even if it means sleeping in your car in the North Woods, someplace. Just do it.
Erica D'Eramo 24:41
Do not claim responsibility for you not bringing snacks.
Ben Keller 24:45
Yeah, definitely bring snacks and some water
Erica D'Eramo 24:49
and a reflective blanket.
Ben Keller 24:53
Tell somebody that you're going before you go and when you
Erica D'Eramo 24:56
get your cell phone.
Erica D'Eramo 24:59
Yeah.
Ben Keller 25:00
Well, they don't all, not every adventure has to be like that. And I'm not even saying that that's an extreme example, but, but even just going to see something in a town two towns over, there's, I've been three or four times now, there's a stream two towns over that the Alewives run in in May, and I just go and I sit with the mosquitoes and the fish and the running water, and just hang out and watch them, and it does amazing things to my brain. I mean, there's all kinds of science that says that running water and watching fire are two very important things that help stimulate different chemical processes in your brain. Great, but I like the fish. I'm not there for the water particularly, I'm there for the fish. So I'm hanging out and it just, it's, you know, 15 minutes from my house and but I come back from that experience feeling refreshed, renewed, a walk on the beach, even sitting on the back porch watching the chipmunks, whatever, you know, change it, change your your situation. It helps amazingly. So of course, I think the further you go down that, the more it's like, it's like, I could run around the block and, sure, okay, you get a little something from that. But then you do 100 mile race, then you get a lot out of that. And sort of the same with with life experience and ex and adventure I think.
Erica D'Eramo 26:21
Yeah, for, for the non-Mainers that are listening, which I think is most of our listenership, an Alewife is a fish. So they, when Ben's talking about the Alewives, there's, like, a, there's Google Alewives. It's pretty interesting. But yeah, when they're running, it's a pretty interesting thing here.
Ben Keller 26:40
They're related to Herring.
Erica D'Eramo 26:42
Yes, yes, they're often used as bait fish, but there's a lot of history around Alewives, so I digress. So okay, we're talking about, like, taking some of these adventures, adventures with a little a or a big A. Maybe it's in the cart. Maybe it's like, really just, you know, plopping down in another country and setting down some roots. So what? What are your thoughts on, like, the difference between risk, you know, how do you conceptualize risk in this? Are we just, I mean, because clearly, I'm an engineer by background. I'm not telling people to just put their little risk worries aside and go take on unmitigated risks. And yet I do, like invite an element of risk into my life. I have a risk tolerance or a risk appetite, I would say so, like, what? I don't know. What are your thoughts?
Ben Keller 27:36
Well, that's a great question. I guess if you want to be smart and safe about it, you do research, you factor in your capabilities, honest, be honest about that, and then you can sort of figure out what the risk is and whether It's acceptable for you, however, sort of using a metaphor from when my ex wife was pregnant, we decided that we were going to try and do hypnobirthing. The woman at hypnobirthing said, great. Write out a plan. Make sure it's very detailed, down to like, what you want, when you want it, that kind of thing. Put it all together on a nice list, crumple it up and throw it away, because it doesn't matter. Risk is going to happen whether you like it's whether you think you've got it or not. There could be something that's just out of your control. So what you do know is how you're going to be able to react to that and so. So if you're not confident in your ability to handle situations when they sort of get bigger than you expected, then that's important to know self knowledge. So whenever going into a situation, even if you think you've got the risk relatively covered, you still have to know or believe that you have a certain level of self reliance within all of it, and that goes for everything in life, I think, because the way the world works is stuff can just come out of left field without you knowing it, and the only thing that you have control over in that situation is yourself.
Erica D'Eramo 29:16
Yeah? I think yeah, for me, I, I often will say, like, truly, what's the worst case credible scenario, right? Like, that risk, that risk manager brain comes back in, what's the worst case credible scenario and legit, sometimes the worst case, credible scenario is that you end up thrown in a foreign jail and you can't reach your family. And, I mean, that was like...
Ben Keller 29:38
Well, that's, well, that's exactly it. I mean, are you, are you okay with that? And if you're not okay with that, that, while the percentage might be very small, that that would happen, it could happen. So what are you going to do if that's the case? So I've alerted everyone. I know that I'm going, this is where I'm going to be. I will check in on the daily basis. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like there's ways. Is to mitigate that risk, but there's no way to ever eliminate it.
Erica D'Eramo 30:04
Yeah
Ben Keller 30:04
And so you have to know and and for the most part, most of the adventures that I've been on my in my life have been more of the sort where if something goes wrong, it'll be probably something in nature or natural I have run up against person or people issues before, but none of them have ever really I do try to mitigate that because that, you know, nature is fairly reliable. You know, it's people that are the wild card, yeah, especially when traveling in foreign countries where they don't necessarily speak English and that kind of thing, so so that or you don't speak their language more precisely. Yeah, that's that's where things can get fairly complicated. But before you do that again, you do your research. You make sure that you got all your bases covered. Can I cannot take a drone to that country? Do I need a visa for that country? Do I need a carnet, which is a piece of paper telling them that you're bringing in production equipment, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all that kind of stuff, so you can wing it, but then when you wing it, the risk levels go way up. And if you're super confident, you can think you can deal with it, whatever, then good on you. But I'm not that way. I will try and mitigate what I can, and then, and then the rest. But there, I mean, I have countless examples where things have happened that I did not even, didn't even register as a possibility. Was just like, oh yeah, this pass through the mountains is actually not passable by a vehicle, uh, where this person is actually not gonna come and be in this video because some weird, you know, force beyond your control has told them they can't. Then what do you do? You're like, Ah, so it happens, and you just have to know or believe that 90% of what happens is something that you'll be able to to cope with.
Erica D'Eramo 32:05
Yeah, yeah. There's, oh, man, there's all these books I'm thinking about right now. There was this one about, um, it's called 4000 Weeks, but, and I've talked about it before, this Oliver Berkman book, but, you know, he talks about, like, you'll cross that bridge when you get to it. There are certain things you can kind of foresee, plan for. And then there's an element of, I know that I am resourceful, I am capable, and I will cross that bridge when I get to it, because there is only so much that we can predict, right? And I think that this is in business too. This is in almost all things like, what do I know? What you know reasonably, can I add to that? And then we got to make a decision, and we get it's a go or no go, or it's a, you know, you'll never get all the information. You'll never be able to mitigate all of the risks. And in fact, there's a book I'm reading right now called, I think it's called unwinding anxiety. But they talk about like this. These are kind of patterns that we build over time, almost like habits for how we engage with that concept of mitigating all the risks, right? Like you never will. But if you pattern that into your brain over and over again, then it becomes almost a habit that you sort of feel like that's what drives anxiety, according to this book, whereas driving the habit of, okay, I did my due diligence, I got what I could, and I know I am capable, I am resourceful. I will handle it, what I will do the best I can when the time comes. That's a different habit. That's a different pattern.
Ben Keller 33:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think back on my life, and I think it would have shame, it would have would have been to miss some of these opportunities. If I had said to myself, I don't think I could handle that, yeah, you know, but it's also like one of those things, like when I got my very first job, they said you have to have cashier experience. And I said, Sure, I know how to run a cashier, never having run a cashier in my entire life, because you weren't going to get that entry level job without having entry level experience, which makes zero sense. So you just sort of say, I know I can pick this up. I know I can do this. And you have to go in there with a confidence that you can and and if you do, the chances of you performing and be able to do it are so much greater.
Erica D'Eramo 34:29
Yeah, so, okay, maybe story time. What's one of the weirdest situations you've gotten yourself in that you feel comfortable sharing with the public? Right here? This is PG rated.
Ben Keller 34:46
Well, I have, I have a number, but let's talk about one that wasn't life or death, and this one actually was. They were both the two stories that I want to tell. Both of them were on, on shoots. The first one, when I was, I was filming a travel for surf television series for the outside television network, and it was called perfect days, and we would go to various different locations, and we had a host, and we'd film her, sort of doing what the locals do, not like a normal tourists, but sort of living as locals would eat in the same kind of food and go into the same kind of places, doing the same kind of things, and then surfing amazing waves. So we had this one shoot in Hawaii, and we were filming it on Kauai, which is an amazingly beautiful island, and the people there are incredible. They are very clear that you they want you to come visit and go home. They don't want you sticking around for too long. And we had a pro who was going to come surf with us on Kauai. He was a pro with one of the sponsors for the show. So we put the whole thing together. He's like, hey, no problem, no problem, no problem. And so we fly to Kauai, and we shoot a couple of days, and we're getting in sort of the rhythm and things, and then and he's nowhere to be found. I go, Okay, where is he? So shoot him an email, and he's like, I'm not coming. And we're like, what? So we get him on the phone, and I won't use anybody's names, but he basically said, Did you ask this person if I could come? And we said, Excuse me, what do you just come over and surf? He said, No, brah. That's not the way it works here. Did you ask him if I could come over and surf? I said, No, I talked to him a while ago, but he wanted the all he like he didn't understand the size of the production. He thought we were much bigger, and he wanted us to cross a bunch of people's palms with silver, and we weren't going to do that. And and he said, then I'm not coming. No one goes to surf that island without this guy's permission. And we were like, we just flew all the way across the country, across the Pacific Ocean to film you, and now you're not coming. And people were angry. The production office back home was like, forget it, put everything away. Come home. Like, what? That makes zero sense to go all the way home, and I was the producer on this, and second camera, and I was producer on this, so in the space of 48 hours, 72 hours, the production that we had started came to a screeching halt. And but people were threatening on pulling money and and we were essentially gonna be stranded on Kauai, not the worst place to be stranded, but still stranded. So so we had to figure out exactly what to do. So it took me a period of, I don't know, probably 12 hours, but having been put in situations where talent has bailed and that sort of thing prior, I had an opportunity to go and convene with some folks back home and talk about our different angles. And we ended up getting another pro to work with us on Kauai. We ended up getting the sponsor to kick in for flights to Oahu. So we flew to Oahu for two days and filmed that Pro and then flew back to Kauai. So it was, it was one of those things where reputation and money and relationships were on the line, and because of my previous experiences of having dealt in a production environment where things like this had gone wrong, I was able to sort of patting myself on the back here, I was sort of able to put together a show That turned out way better than the original vision, actually was because we got to see this pro on Kauai was very much the hui and which means sort of like the family. And so he took us to some amazing places on the island that we would have never gone otherwise. And so we ended up with an incredible episode and told never to come back again.
Ben Keller 39:42
Which is hilarious, but I think the other one is more sort of sort of life and death. I was filming my last film, which was called Just One Step, and we were filming a race out in Colorado, and this race. Race is widely known as one of the most difficult 100 mile races in the world. And in fact, they give you 48 hours versus the normal 24 hours to finish it. It's called the Hard Rock and it's in the San Juan Mountains in southwestern Colorado.
Erica D'Eramo 40:17
I know that, yes, I used to live in Durango.
Ben Keller 40:19
Okay, so right, right around there. And so the first bit of the run just heads up into some of the foothills and stuff. It was easy enough to I was following two or three runners through the whole race, and it was easy enough to follow them there. And then I went up into, I forget, one of the passes, pretty far into one of the passes and got to one of the the check in rest stations, and filmed my runners come through, and hung out with them for a little bit as they took off. And I had, I think, about six, no four hours to get to the next stop. And that meant I could go all the way back down through the pass and take the highway over and then go up another pass and maybe make it in time. Or I could follow the map and take Engineer Pass, and that would...
Erica D'Eramo 41:18
I literally know Engineer Pass
Ben Keller 41:21
It cut hours and hours and hours off of my commute. So I was like, Yeah, I'm doing that. So not by myself in a car that is a mall crawler at best, two wheel drive, you know, shaped like an SUV, but clearly not actually an SUV. So off I go into Engineer Pass. And if you know Engineer Pass, and when I got back, and I finally got back and did some research on it, they said, in no way, take your vehicle down this path with this. We don't maintain this in any way, shape or form. And I have a video of it someplace. I filmed, I was like, I was laughing, because I was terrified. There was, you know, I the things that I put that car through. Thank God I had the insurance. I blew a tire. I opened up the the tire compartment, and and it was a donut halfway through. So I had the donut. And then, and the jack was missing a piece, so I so I had to take a rock and bend the jack like smash the jack handle into the right shape to make this thing work. Got the donut on finally. And as I was doing that, a couple of people went by on the way up, and they had these massive, jacked up vehicles, and, you know, pickups with, you know, so much lift and everything. And they're like, Hey, are you all right? I'm like, yeah, I just blew a flat and, you know, finally got it repaired. Took me a couple hours, but it's good. And they said it doesn't get any better than this, so be really careful. There's nothing. There's nothing we can do for you here, and no one's coming to get you. I was like that. I'll be fine. And so I'm gonna go to the part where what they didn't say. It didn't get better, surely. So basketball shaped diamond, pointy rocks everywhere, with huge washouts where, you know, my front bumper would be grinding against the rocks as I drove out of it, to the point where it started raining and everything got really slippery, and I got to the part of the section which isn't actually that far from the exit point, but it's a sheer cliff on one side, and on the other side, it's a sheer drop, and not really wide enough for an entire vehicle. So there were several times when I was going over this with the donut, where the rear tire would slide off the edge of the road, and so I would, I would accelerate and smash into the cliff wall in order to keep the car on this whole time, what I didn't realize, and I eventually made it out, but it was like excruciating, and I missed everybody, obviously, everybody at the next stop and the stop after that. And what I what I didn't realize, was that whatever my previous experience in the world of adverse conditions and putting myself in situations that I didn't understand was that I was keeping it together in such a way that when I finally got out and parked the car, I actually broke down and started crying because the amount of stress and whatever fear and all of these things like I'm letting these people down who I'm here to work for. I'm terrified they're gonna go off the edge of the cliff and no one's gonna find my body and like, all of this was building up, in a way, but there was something about me. There's like, Okay, here's the mission, and we have to, we have to solve this problem, because no one's coming to get you. You have to do it yourself. Do it. Let's get it done. We'll get down, and then we'll deal with the follow up from there. Did it and yeah, and it was just a massive release when I parked, and then I got out and I went over to the rest stop, and there was one of the guys who kind of went up in the truck, and he said, I'm glad to see we were about to send somebody up to find you, because we pretty much figured you were done up there. So little kudos to myself. But also, like, this is the risk that I took so, you know, and then had to deal with, like, I had to get a full size replacement. And I actually bought a five pound sledge at the Walmart so I could bang parts of the car back into the regular shape. It was like it was like it was a it was a disaster. But what I learned from that experience is that I am capable in those situations. I knew that I probably would be, but it was so much worse than I thought. The risk that I had sort of calculated was going to be based on to based on my experience going on the other passes so far as, like, all right, this car can handle. It's not that big a deal. This was genuinely terrifying. As you know, you've been on that pass, right? It's like, it's super scary and really dumb to be up there. Enough of my research, I figured I could handle the risk, and I couldn't. Again, the only thing that I had any control over was myself in that moment. And the film turned out to be an award winning film, by the way.
Erica D'Eramo 46:52
oh my gosh, congratulations.
Erica D'Eramo 46:55
And it's available on Amazon and Apple. You can watch it. It's called Just One Step, and it's about the human need to run. And yeah, and a big portion of it deals with a woman who ran and a guy who ran that race, and they talk about their need and desire to run, but what doing, too much of it, can actually do to you. And so that was the perfect race for that, because it's a crazy, crazy, difficult race, and they push themselves to the limit. And I think I pushed myself to the limit in terms of production as well. So...
Erica D'Eramo 47:31
Yeah. I mean, as soon as you said Engineer Pass, I was like, intake, breath, intake. Yeah. So and I keep thinking about my it's interesting. A lot of my clients, especially ADHD clients, I think probably ADHD clients, they will often beat themselves up about not sticking with these like maintenance tasks or not sticking with these things. You know, think not keeping with a rhythm or whatever it is. But, man, a lot of them are really good in a crisis. When they get that hyper focus, it's like we do need some of the we need a mix, right? We do need the people who are really good at just following through steady Eddy, silent running, as we say in operations, you know, like and, and we also need the folks too, who can just like, I don't know. I know exactly. I know exactly what you mean about the self management in the crisis. And that is not everybody, and that's okay, right? We in emergency response. They kind of teach you, when you're the on scene commander, how to identify the folks who are like a deer in headlights, the folks that are not handling the stress or that fight or flight reaction very well, and you get them out of the way. And then the folks who are like handling the crisis are laser focused. And then there's the decompression afterwards, right? There's the crying, there's the like closing the stress cycle, because, literally, your body's been floated with adrenaline and cortisol and all these things and and you've probably faced your mortality. So, so yeah, as you were it just is a reminder to me, of, you know, unfortunately, because we see the day to day so much more often than we see the crisis situation. Many folks kind of forget how good they can be in a crisis. Sometimes not that I'm inviting them to go collect more crises to remind themselves, but we should give ourselves credit where it's due when we are good in a crisis, even if we're not really good at I don't know, yeah, like, maintenance tasks.
Ben Keller 49:44
Yeah, right. One of the things that I will say as well, though, is it's not just about adventure and experience in this, because it's not just about, like, how to handle yourself when things go wrong, but also how to take the things that are good and. Make them spectacular. I think that some of my the way I tell stories, some of the angles I get, some of the knowledge I have around natural systems, just because I've spent so much time in the outdoors, helps me create some of these images and these stories about these natural places or whatever, because I've immersed myself in it, I know how it works, generally speaking, if I don't, I find out, because I want to be able to really encapsulate it in a really truthful way, but in a way that is alluring and captivating and will engage the viewer. And so those are some of the more positive things, you know that, yeah, all the way down to like, simple things like camera angle or time of day, you know, those kinds of things are all things you pick up just by being out there in the world.
Erica D'Eramo 50:53
Yeah? I mean, and also, there's another similarity I'm seeing, too, with your work and coaching, or whatever your path, my path in that, I think we both found career paths where that allow us to, like, weave in some of these different sources of like, fulfillment and joy and braid them into a career. Right? We've kind of created careers that allow us to go tap into that and and then use that in service of the vision the client. You know, use that raw material of experience and kind of channel that, but it feels like a virtuous cycle. How do you mean just in that like you go get more experiences than you bring that into the folds and it and it sparks joy, and it sparks creativity, and then that begets more. And so that's what, that's what I mean by the virtuous cycle versus a vicious cycle, which is like getting worse and worse.
Ben Keller 51:55
Yeah, agree.
Erica D'Eramo 51:56
Actual like virtue,
Ben Keller 51:59
Argree 100%
Erica D'Eramo 52:02
Yeah. So I think I want to highlight one of the projects that you're working on, because it's pretty dear to my heart, and I'm going to take a little bit of credit for the introduction, but tell me a little bit about this upcoming project that you're doing with the around travel.
Ben Keller 52:27
You should take all the credit for that introduction, because I would not have met Natalia without you. So your friend, Natalia, runs a company. They're changing the name, it will soon be called Mavka Tours. Mavka, I guess in Ukrainian, means spirit of the forest.
Erica D'Eramo 52:48
Oh, I love that. Yeah.
Ben Keller 52:49
Yeah, that's great. And we have come up through a variety of ways. We were starting with the idea of, how do we increase our marketing presence? But then we sort of came up with the idea of something that is sort of near and dear and really important to me as well, which is the idea of sustainable tourism. Right now, it's sort of a hot button, maybe not in the US, because there are so many other hot buttons, but the the around the world, there are crazy things happening in the rejection of standard tourism, because it's noisy, it's expensive, it's destructive in ways that don't necessarily have to be so mavka tours leads a number of tours that are sustainable and give back To the people and the cultures that they are exploring with with their clients. So they take small groups of clients out into the world. In this case, in this upcoming season, they'll be going to Transylvania, Georgia and Morocco, and they live with people, and they cook with them and sing with them, and they walk around their villages and see things that you wouldn't see if you just went to the Louvre. I'd say there's anything wrong with that. I love going to the louver, but everybody goes to the Louvre and and what kind of damage is that doing to the museum and the city and the people? I mean, they closed it two weeks ago. They're like, this is too much, and they just shut the doors and nobody could go see the museum. So we have talked about creating this short film on sustainable tourism, and just had a nice conversation the other night about it and looking like it's probably a go, but when you were talking about risk and that sort of thing, it's definitely one of those things that's on my mind, especially going to Georgia as an American, and what I can and can't do within those countries without, with. Out going through the channels that a major production would go through, and so navigating those waters are something that I have to do in advance, and yeah, and and trying to figure out what the risks are, what mitigating risks are. I've already done a bunch of research as to whether I can take drones to those countries, and what I need to do with the drone before I get there, the amount of equipment I can it. Can't take that sort of thing, permissions with Mavca and Mavca clients and that sort of thing. So that's all pre Pro. And then we're, we're talking about story. We're in the process, we have some funds. We're in the process of raising more funds for it, it's in terms of documentaries. It's very, very low budget documentary, which is fantastic. It's almost better that way, because this is about being off the beaten path. It's not polished, and it's going to be beautiful in and of itself. It don't need any sort of, like, false shine on it. So really excited about it. It's going to be an amazing project. Natalia Mavka is an amazing human being, and we're just going to end up with a really fabulous piece at the end of it.
Erica D'Eramo 56:17
Yeah, I initially thought to introduce you both, because, well, I've traveled with Natalia. In fact, my most recent trip to Georgia was incredible up in the Garian Mountains, which I've you know, I used to work in Georgia, but I never got to really get out to the western part of the country and experience that I never got out to, like Batumi in the Black Sea. And so that was an incredible experience. Even though I've been to the country probably countless times, it was a totally different experience for me. And so when I was seeing another piece that you were showing some of our colleagues, I saw the way you were highlighting nature, and just like bringing us into it, and I thought, I we need this for Georgia, right? We need this for some of these, these trips that I've gotten experience with my own eyes. But when I try to verbally tell people about it, or even show them a photo, it's not the same. You can't really capture and I felt like you had really captured it. So that's what prompted the introduction of I was like, Man, these two people really need to talk, and hopefully they can combine forces and bring something incredible that tells a story, opens it up to for folks who maybe can't get on a plane and go travel to these places, like maybe they can get a little taste of it from afar. So I'm really excited, and we'll be putting the the fundraising link in the show notes and in our newsletter, so that hopefully other folks can partake and support this, if it's something that they feel called to, because the sustainable travel piece is big. I still I feel torn that I want to see and experience all of these cultures in the world, and also I don't want to do harm, right? So...
Ben Keller 58:08
Well, that's, that's the bigger thing about it, and not just there, but Maine. I mean, Maine has, has a tourism economy, and there are places in Maine, I've worked with clients and Land Trust clients who are like, Well, we do want to let people know that it's public access, but we don't really want to let people know it's public access, because all of a sudden there'll be people tramping all over it and and essentially doing all the damage to all the work that we've done. So there's there. So hopefully this piece will will show people that there is another way. There's a way that's outside the box, that can be as if not more fulfilling. You know, you won't just come to Portland to eat the food and you know, see the Lobsterman Statue. You can come to Portland and see a whole other side of it. See the art scene, the way the people live here. You can go to other parts of Maine. Maine is really unique. It's one of the oldest territories in the country, and it still has some of the laws and rules from 1787 you know, like that. Like, it's a neat place, and there's ways to see it that aren't just everybody to the Old Port, you know.
Erica D'Eramo 59:22
At noon, but as I'm trying to make it to a meeting, so, you know, the thing that occurred to me too is that now that I am a little bit more risk aware to traveling with someone who understands and has made those local connections, understands the quote, unquote topography, you know, but the cultural topography even is so valuable because I think reflect one of my wilder stories is probably when I was maybe 25 I think around 25 I didn't have any buddy to work with, to travel. I was working in Georgia. I lived in Azerbaijan, and I knew I wanted to see Armenia, so I hitchhiked to Armenia. I hitchhiked the bus was broken that day, and I was determined to go on my weekend, so I hitchhiked, right? I probably took way more risk than I should have. I mean, I definitely think that they were drinking vodka in the car. It was like me and three grown men, and they didn't speak any English, and I got to practice my Russian a lot. But, you know, talking about the Engineer Pass like, that was the, those were the types of roads we were driving on.
Ben Keller 1:00:26
That's amazing!
Erica D'Eramo 1:00:27
I made it, but not the best decisions for, you know, not necessarily the most wise decisions. Um, useful, definitely. But now, like knowing, I always felt like I was in safe hands with Natalia, and I know, you know, similarly with folks coming to Maine, like having that local person that understands what sustainable could look like and can mitigate the risks in a responsible way, I think there's a lot to be said for that.
Ben Keller 1:00:56
Well, yeah, I mean, that's one of the powerful things about using somebody likeMavka to do that sort of thing is because they are directly tapped in to the local communities and cultures. And they actually, Mavka gives 10% of their profits back to those communities, and they're putting money directly in their pockets from the tours. And so they're reinvesting in these communities that are sort of bearing the brunt of our curiosity, really, that's a sort of a cynical way to put it, but they're the ones who are going to are going to have to deal with the tourism and so. So by incorporating them and and giving back to them, they are ensuring that these cultures are known and they're also being preserved, and that's usually important. And if you went just by yourself, would be a little harder to do that, I think, especially in a country where your language, your native language, isn't anywhere near their native language, and so like, there's no it's beyond pointing at something, and it's hard, I assume, to have a full on conversation about who should I be supporting in this community, you know? So, so having that in is is hugely important in the equation of sustainable tourism, for sure.
Erica D'Eramo 1:02:16
I mean, in Georgian, I can't even read the alphabet, the Georgian alphabet, actually, so really, just at the mercy of folks in community helping me. So, all right, what's, what's the headline for our I guess, what's the key takeaway that our listeners should when they close down this podcast episode, should keep with them.
Ben Keller 1:02:37
Ah, that I believe, anyway, that if you are going to really excel at what it is that you have chosen to do what your chosen career is, it's not just about the book work. It's about how you bring how you show up to it, and how you show up if you come in a multi colored coat versus a coat that's just one color, you're going to be able to handle situations. You're going to be able to be more creative. You're going to be able to understand how to have a conversation, and you're going to be able to excel in ways that you might not be able to if you don't go out and live a life as well. ]
Erica D'Eramo 1:03:41
Yeah, yeah, live the life, yes. Okay, and how do people
Ben Keller 1:03:47
And that's not to say that people who've decided not to do that and put all their time in focusing on one thing that's their if that's their drive, and that's what's what's doing it for them, that is amazing. But for me, I believe the best way for me to function in any given especially in the creative spheres, is to be able to wear that coat, that multi color coat.
Erica D'Eramo 1:04:09
Yeah, it might, I mean, it might be too that you just delve deeply and curiously into the surroundings that you have available to you, right? Like it can look very different. But I, yeah, I, I'm probably, I'm on the same wavelength. Where do people find you? Where can they find your work? What if they want to work with you? Like, who? How do we how do people engage with you? Typically?
Ben Keller 1:04:37
Well, they could certainly go to our website, Kellermediaworks.com, and there's a portfolio on there that has a number of things on it, a variety of things, everything from corporate all the way to documentary and everything in between. You can look at, and then you can reach out to us, or to me at Bkeller@kellermediaworks.com and I would love to have a conversation with anyone about any video thought they might have. I love having the conversations. It may not always turn out that I'd be the right one to work with, but, but having the conversations is always amazing. What people desire to have done sometimes is just amazing things that I haven't even thought of and bouncing those ideas off of me and then and then me sort of taking it and running with it, even in the space of a half hour conversation is always really energy providing for me. So if you want to just reach out and have a conversation about an idea that you have that you want to do, then I'm totallydown with that.
Erica D'Eramo 1:05:43
Awesome I know, like I'm still figuring out how we're going to use video for TwoPiers. So keep an eye, folks there. I can't have a videographer, producer in my life and not actually do something with video. So there'll be something coming for Two Piers at some point once Ben convinces me to get in front of the camera, which I know you will do, so we will include links to your website and to the fundraiser in in the show notes. And yeah, thank you so much, Ben. This has been a really enjoyable conversation.
Ben Keller 1:06:21
Oh, my pleasure, and thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it. I love talking about adventure with people. So this has been really, really wonderful.
Erica D'Eramo 1:06:30
Awesome. And for our listeners, you can find a summary of this episode on our website, and you can find the full transcript, if that is helpful, and we will see you next episode.
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Into the Unknown: How Adventure Builds Confidence and Creative Power - with Filmmaker Ben Keller
In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, host Erica D’Eramo sits down with Ben Keller, award-winning filmmaker and founder of Keller Media Works, to talk about creativity, risk, and the winding road that led him from sculpture to the music industry and ultimately to video production. Along the way, Ben shares insights on how adventure, adversity, and diverse experiences shape his work and worldview.
A Career Built on Curiosity
Ben's creative journey has never followed a straight line. He began in the world of sculpture, shifted into photography, and found his way into the music industry, working with small independent labels in Chicago before launching one of his own.
Eventually, a growing interest in visual storytelling—and the rising accessibility of video equipment—pulled him into film production. With a background that also includes time as a travel agent, Ben brings a multifaceted lens to every project.
“Every stop along the way has added a layer to how I approach storytelling,” Ben says.
Demystifying Video Production
Erica asks Ben to break down some of the terminology that clients often find confusing—terms like A&R (Artists and Repertoire) and “content creator.”
Ben, who prefers the titles filmmaker or videographer over the catch-all content creator, explains the breadth of his work: from documentaries and commercial spots to social media videos and internal messaging for organizations.
In Maine, where many creatives wear multiple hats, having a wide range of production skills is more necessity than luxury.
Experience Is the Best Teacher
Storytelling, Ben argues, is deeply personal—and the best stories come from people with the richest, most varied lives. Whether it's travel, books, or conversations, life experience adds depth and texture to creative work.
“You can tell when a director has lived a little. It shows in how they shape a story,” he reflects.
This philosophy resonates throughout the episode: creativity isn’t manufactured—it’s mined from lived experience.
The Role of Risk and Resilience
Erica and Ben explore the connection between adversity and confidence. Ben shares a philosophy grounded in experience: facing difficulty and managing it well builds both skill and self-trust.
Erica introduces the idea of the “manure effect”—growth that comes from navigating tough, messy situations. For both of them, resilience isn't theoretical. It’s something earned, often the hard way.
When Plans Fall Apart
Ben recounts two high-stakes moments from past projects that tested his adaptability.
First, a shoot in Hawaii where a pro surfer bailed just before filming, forcing a last-minute pivot. Then, a hair-raising descent down Colorado’s Engineer Pass during a production—white-knuckle driving included.
Both stories underline the importance of preparation, flexibility, and staying calm under pressure.
Sustainable Storytelling: A New Chapter
Looking ahead, Ben shares his excitement for an upcoming collaboration with Mavka Tours, focused on sustainable tourism in regions like Transylvania, Georgia, and Morocco.
This project reflects his belief that tourism—when done right—can preserve cultures and support communities. Working closely with local guides, respecting environments, and telling authentic stories are at the heart of the effort.
“It’s not just about capturing beautiful footage. It’s about being responsible stewards of the places we feature.”
Creativity Through New Environments
Both Erica and Ben reflect on how changing environments reinvigorate their creativity. Being somewhere unfamiliar shifts perspective, unlocks inspiration, and pushes them to adapt.
Whether it’s getting unstuck creatively or sharpening observational skills, travel and adventure are more than leisure—they're tools for growth.
The Power of Local Connection
Sustainable tourism relies on relationships. Ben underscores how working with local communities creates more authentic, meaningful content—and channels financial support back into the region.
Erica shares her own travel experiences in Georgia and the difference local guides made in shaping her understanding and connection to the place.
Open to Possibility: Ben’s Collaborative Approach
When it comes to client work, Ben keeps the door open. He encourages people to reach out, even if they’re unsure whether their project is a fit.
“Even if I’m not the right person, I love the energy of hearing new ideas,” he says.
His collaborative spirit and openness to diverse projects reflect his core belief: great work comes from exploration and connection.
Final Takeaways: Live Deeply, Create Fully
As the conversation wraps, Ben and Erica return to a central theme—living a rich, varied life is not only fulfilling, but also essential for creative work.
Whether through calculated risk, spontaneous travel, or meaningful collaborations, both advocate for seeking out the unknown and letting those experiences shape the path forward.
Want to learn more about Ben Keller and Keller Media Works?
Visit kellermediaworks.com or connect with him on Instagram at @kellermediaworks.
For more info on Ben’s sustainable tourism documentary or to find ways to contribute, check out the fundraising page.
Listen to the full episode on your platform of choice, and subscribe to the Two Piers Podcast for more conversations on creative careers, leadership, and navigating risk with intention.